FEEDBACK TO WHY NOT TO BE A MORMON
"Hey I was at your website. Its awesome. I am a Christian and I love the Lord Jesus. I have a friend who is Mormon though that I am trying to witness to. All I know to do right now is pray. I am praying that God will use me to witness to her and to be there to lead her to Christ. If you could pray for her(her name is Ashley), that would be awesome. Thanks. Michael"
Jonathan Selby wrote back:
"Thank you brother for your encouragement regarding my site. I suppose you saw my Mormon page? yes- I will pray for you and her regarding her salvation. Fell free to write me. Blessings to you, yours in Christ, Jonathan
"Have you ever talked to Mormon missionaries before? I sort of have through Ashley and I guess I scared them off. She wants me to "try again". I will probably scare them off again because I feel like IM pretty strong in The Word. Plus I have Jesus backing me up which is something they don't have. Do you know of anything I can say to them? Or anything I can talk to Ashley about? I have talked to her about Jesus and Salvation but she always points to verses(in their cult book of Mormon) that say they believe in being saved by faith and she shows me verses that say they love Jesus. I'm trying to figure out how to show here the HUGE difference in true Christianity and her Mormon bullcrap. Thanks. Yours in Christ, Michael
Brother- the primary failure in Mormonism the way I see is that the "Jesus" they created and believe in to save them is NOT the real Jesus (who faith in saves). The real Jesus is God himself loving us enough to become a man and suffer and die for our sins. Their Jesus is something else that does not exist and therefore can not save them either. They need to first understand as in Rev.1 that the great "Iam" alpha and Omega, God almighty, is the same one who also died and rose again. this is really square one for their salvation- to believe in the true Jesus of the Bible - (not their Mormon watered down version).
Note: Same person speaking as God all the way through:
from Revelations Ch 1:
:" And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, (True Jesus) 6: And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. 7: Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. 8: I am Alpha and Omega",(God) "the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. 9: I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. 10: I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, 11: Saying, I am Alpha and Omega," (God almighty) "the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea. 12: And I turned to see the voice that spake with me." (Jesus) "And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; 13: And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man" (Jesus) "clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. 14: His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; 15: And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. 16: And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength. 17: And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore," (Jesus),
OR: From John 1:
1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word (Jesus)was God. 2: The same was in the beginning with God. 3: All things were made by him; ("God created the heavens and the earth") and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4: In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5: And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. 6: There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7: The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. 8: He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9: That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10: He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11: He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12: But as many as received Him, (Not some creation of their own) to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14: And the Word (God) was made flesh, (Jesus) and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
or: as Paul wrote: "In him (Jesus) dwells ALL the fullness of the Godhead bodily" or as Christ said: "He that hath seen me hath seen the Father," and on and on, Now of course the Mormons will try to twist all these to bring Christ down- so they can more easy believe themselves to be equals as God as well- but Christians know that only Jesus is God (who alone is worthy of praise) who gave Himself for us. Or as Paul wrote- "The image of the invisible God" (all that we will ever see as God).
Blessings to you as you continue to stand for Jesus- and defend against man-made religious cults.
Mon, 29 Mar 2004 Subject: Keep it up! To: email@example.com
Keep it up! Mormonism is a cult. Pray that their eyes would be open and come to know the truth and be saved. (Fellow brother in Christ, Greis)
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 14:16:57 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jonathan Selby"
"Wow, can you find any other peripheral reasons not to become a Mormon?"
Not "peripheral" but extremely important! your religion is just that- salvation by religion- or your church- like the JW's- believing in all the teachings, doctrines etc. and being part of your church to you is salvation- and NOT faith alone in Jesus Christ's sacrifice. (The "rebirth" which if genuine always produces fruit by the indwelling of the Spirit)
"If you repented, and gained any common sense, I would say, "Sure, enter the Church of Jesus Christ". But, given that your reasons and reasoning are so spurious, and nonsensical, and you generally try to find extreme things (frankly, what Joseph Smith said about men on the moon, I think, was likely done very much tongue-in-cheek -- though"...
(that's a good choice- Likewise we need to apply this thinking to everything Joseph Smith said- and discount it ALL accordingly)
"on the other hand, what he claimed hasn't been totally disproven either)",
(Maybe you should let NASA know about this prophesy so they can look again for you)
I think that a good reason for one to be a Latter-Day Saint is that you should be able to think straight, which appears that you can't. 1. Joseph Smith was likely ribbing someone on the "men on the moon" response.
(funny there's no such reference of that...I missed the punch line?)
2. Peter heard voices in his head ("Arise and eat"). Was HE looney too?
Peter wasn't going about "Hearing voices" you skipped the portion about the "Blinding Light"
3. Does Christ sound like a "Christian"? "
Yes- Jesus fulfilled the law
1 THEN came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying, 2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread. 3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, Honor shy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death. (New Testament | Matthew 15:1 - 4) 4. Where in the world did you THAT quote? I've read the biography of Joseph Smith by his mother, and many other things she said, and I never found ANY quote even resembling that baloney you wrote. Give your source (as spurious as I'm sure it is)
Im sure your sheltered sources wouldn't have included that (New York State Court Records 1826- re: bibliography)
5. You cross reference Joseph Smith's claim that children of a heavenly parent have at least the potential to become like their parent (and where else in God's nature is this not so, pray tell?) But you forgot to cross reference what Jesus said-- 34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
Small "g" (gods) not God! (Duh!)
(New Testament | John 10:34) And, if Jesus found it not robbery to claim to be (Equal with God) the son of God; and, if we are to become (if we live worthily) (your "works"- again) heirs, even joint-heirs with Christ -- why do YOU say that "all that the Father hath", even his godhood, is something that his own children cannot attain to? (Satan's lie)
6. Abraham, you may note, as well as Isaac and Jacob, those men all that all have claimed to worship "the God of" were polygamists! (Old covenant- clarified by Christ)
Even Moses, the law giver, who brought down from Mount Sinai the commandment that states, "Thou shalt not commit adultery..." was a polygamist. These men, Abraham in particular, were men whose actions even Jesus sanctioned. Is God the same yesterday, today and forever?
The New Testament only gives the recommendation of a monogamous man for the office of a bishop. One could even take the parable of the ten virgins as applying to a man who was to marry more than one wife (why else would their virginity be mentioned)?
What a wild twisting of scriptures "to your own destruction"(II Pet 3:16)
The word of God was completed with the book of Revelations- and NO more was to be added under threat of great penalty- which your church, of course, disregards and blows off.
Plural marriage, as even monogamous marriage, is only to be done as ordained by God. Right now plural marriage is not ordained of God. But when it was sanctioned, to those whom it was sanctioned, it was no more sin than it was anciently. 7. Who said anything about being better than the black man. Many of the blessings granted to Israel were not given to the gentiles. Jesus even implied that gentiles were "dogs". At the time that First Presidency statement was given, the negro was not permitted by God to receive the priesthood. Now he is. Just as the time of the "gentiles" changed policy within the ancient Church, starting with Cornelius, so it changed in 1978 in regard to the blacks.
Constantly recanting and modifying to cover the errs of your false prophets, as usual- like with Joseph Smith's men on the moon, Negroes not permitted in heaven, marriage and so on- how could any intelligent person trust such a constantly revised belief, that is more concerned with building earthly "temples", wearing "Holy underwear", genealogies and marketing their "church" etc., than the salvation of souls is beyond me? (What people won't go along with just to feel they belong to "something" is amazing).
8. It is obvious that you haven't read both the Book of Mormon nor Spaulding's manuscript.
(Read enough to recognize heresy, false prophets and man-made religion)
David Whitmer and others pointed out how impossible it would have been that that could have happened, let alone, by his own knowledge, and that of others, they knew that that did not happen. 9. Despite the tragedies that occurred with those who started too late with handcarts, (the Willy and Martin handcart companies), generally, those who came in handcart companies had a lower mortality rate than the average person in this country.
10. And because WE (Latter-Day Saints) love the Lord, and that not just in word, but also in deed,
(there you've said it- its your "deeds" and "church" your counting on- not the blood- thats my whole point and the primary reason I wouldn't be a Mormon)
"We declare to the world" (What we think saves) "that: God lives, that the Father and Son" (His representative) "have appeared to man in our time",(via Joseph Smith) "that Jesus has restored his Church upon the earth, and The Church" (your Mormon "institution") "of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints" (Saves, and) "is that" (only) "church" (That saves)!
Right- all the false doctrines teach that it is their "church" alone that saves- but CHRISTIANITY claims that only faith in the person and blood of JESUS saves)
(Notice again what you're selling- instead of "NOTHING BUT THE BLOOD")
you sing- "EVERYTHING BUT THE BLOOD")
"This is the" (ANOTHER) "reason" (NOT) "to become and remain a member of the "Mormon Church"!
(Of course, it is doubtful that you will put and/or keep these things I have said on your website)
Thank you for that permission- I will add this to that page, and I'll add this much for LDS- if the only rule of thumb was "By their fruits ye shall know them"all in all the Mormons hold a pretty good standard, its a shame that fruits don't save.
Dialogue: D.M. Pearson firstname.lastname@example.org vs/ Jonathan Selby email@example.com
To whom it may concern: I was recently surfing the internet looking for recipes for missionarys when I typed in mormon, your website poped up on my search engion and I, being a very curiouse person decided to read your top 10 list of why you should not be a Mormon. Have you ever thought for a momment about the good things the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day saints have done to help our world? the Releaf society helps war victims to orphand or beaten familys with quilts and other comforts. Why do people like you, wish to look at some of the things that you think is wrong and tottaly twist them to your own silly ideas. I am a mormon, And the facts that you have said are wrong. you need to look deeper into your facts, and try not to be ignorant. if you dont beleave the Mormon church is true, that is your own opinion, but dont disgrace someone elses faith just to make you feel more powerful. have a good day Ms. Ellen Parton.
Ms Ellen, my purpose is not to bash mormons for the fun of it- quite to the contrary, its great all the good things your church does, however, not accepting the truth of who Jesus is will send a soul to hell- that is the purpose of my exposing lies. No matter how good you or your church may be is not what its about- its to be about the salvation of your soul and others. Jonathan
Mr. Shelby: Despite what you may think, I do have a stong belief in Jesus Christ, Hence the actualy name of my religion, The Church of Jesus Christ of later day saints. I beleave thta Christ was born to Redeem us, that we my be able to live with our father in heaven again. your problem is not so much that we beleave in Christ its b/c of Joseph Smith. I know, in my heart that Joseph Smith was only a instrament for God, in bringing the restored Gospel that Christ taught will he was yet on the earth, I think you would like to read a book. It is called the Great Apostasy. I think it might clear up some things. I belave in Christ, I belave in God. I know that the only way that we can live with Father again is to be born of Christ. He made it possible, but we must do our own part. God gave us free agency, we must choose. Do you think its right for a man to say I belave in Christ therefore Im saved? what if that man Killed many people. or did unspeakable harm to others? but he was saved? is it fare? dont you think he should get his just reward in heaved? yes us mormons beleave in "working to get into heaven" b/c it only makes sence. please, look deeper into the church, ask someone who really know's and do some extra studying. I know you only mean well. But I know, what i have said is the truth. Ellen
Ms Ellen- you and your church have missed and done away with the true gospel of Jesus Christ- Smith didn't restore it- he endeavors to obliterated it. To say you must work your way to heaven is the same as to say that Jesus blood was/is of no value- you can earn it yourself?! that is the OPPOSITE of the gospel message- which in truth is that we have ALL failed and that only faith in the blood of Christ can redeem our souls. Only the indwelling of the Spirit by genuine faith in Christ can and does give us victory over our sinful flesh and prevent us from being victims of our old nature and doing those awful sins you referred to. If one never gets victory, they are obviously, regardless of what they may say, not really "saved". I Hope and pray that you will realize that ONLY (true) faith in the shed blood of Christ alone will save your soul (and Faith in anything but that truth is damning).
Writings by J.Selby NOT copyrighted- (feel free to use)
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